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Island 4 Final Day

Page history last edited by Kelsie =] 11 years, 2 months ago

 

You’ve been playing pretend so far. You have had to resolve conflicts, complete tasks, and reflect on your stay. For our last day let’s journey to the world of entertainment where playing pretend takes a whole new meaning.

 

Kid Nation trailer:

YouTube plugin error

 

Section [09]

 

 

First, view the trailer about Kid Nation. 

 

 

After watching the trailer, the narrator claims that it the town is entirely run by kids. Is this true?

This is not entirely true. There were adults behind the scenes, in charge of the games and videotaping the kids. There must have been some supervision also to ensure that the kids did not kill each other. Some of the lines seemed scripted, there was already a civilization built by parents there, as well as tools provided by the parents (water buckets, cabins, outhouse).

  

 

How do the adults running the show provide Apollonian order for the kids?

The adults schedule races and games for they children to keep occupied and happy. They help to establish social hierarchy based on these games, for the kids' jobs are determined by who wins these games. The adults also determine who wins; the children do not get to voice their opinions. The money exchanged in the shop, food, the award (gold star),responsibilities (cooking, cleaning), buildings and what they were (town hall) were all established and created by the adults. The adults are trying to give children tasks to do instead of actually having them survive on their own. This is Apollonian because it organizes what the kids will do and how they will act, giving them a "heads up" for what will happen next. The children did not rely on "id" or their instinct. but rather what they were told they should do by the adults recording and narrating the show (ego). This ego shows through again in the structure of the cabins built by the adults; they were straight and clean cut, unlike nature itself, id, which is Dionysian. The children weren't really in the Dionysian world, expelling them from ever being part of a Dionysian world, whereas in Lord of the Flies, the children were completely in a Dionysian world, making the transition from ego to id difficult. The children in Kids Nation had an easier transition and an easier time. 

 

 

Take a tally of how many members think they would have enjoyed being part of a program like Kid Nation? Why or why not?

Everyone said that they  would want to be in this program. Therfore the tally was 4 to 0. We all agreed that it would be interesting to learn how to be on our own and (almost) be able to run our own lives. It would be fun and interesting not to have techonology, which most of us havn't gone a day without using for at least a couple years now. The problem is that most of this show seems very unrealistic; it wouldn't give us important survival instincts, only tasks which to accomplish for praise from the adults. There is not a lot of independence in that.

 

 

How does is this similar to Lord of the Flies? How is it different?

This is similar to Lord of Flies in the fact that the children were on their own, established their own form civilization, ranged in age, the older children fought and were heads of the group, all children were happy then stressed about their situation, and everyone had a job to do. It is different because in Kid Nation, the tasks are assigned by the adults, nobody died, the children were rewarded for their actions, and anyone can leave when they choose. The children in Kid Nation weren't completely isolated from other society, and the city was built for them with tools to use before they arrived. In Kid Nation, it was a choice and to a "learning experience." In Lord of the Flies, the children themselves doled out the jobs, which createdh most of the tension that arose from developing a civilization. This is why there isn't much bickering in Kid Nation, and probably why no one died. Other reasons no one died in Kid Nation were because of adult supervision and adult rules; still form of ego, instead of complete id. Speaking of ego and id, the cabins and tools were already built for the children in Kid Nation, allowing room for perfect cabins with straight lines and edges, unlike nature itself, which is Dionysian. Lord of the Flies shows how difficult it is for the boys to build things to stand up straight and be perfect, but they dont realize nature isn't perfect and won't change. It wasn't a choice for the children in Lord of the Flies to be stranded; it was a misfortune instead. In Lord of the Flies, the children were isolated on an island and did'nt have a clue to where they were. The amount of space to be explored was greater in Lord of the Flies. The kids in Lord of the Flies also had to catch their own food, whereas the adults that "weren't present" brought them food to cook. Though both societies of children felt stress, the children in Lord of the Flies had a greater amount of stress on them since they had no parental contact and were dealing with their own lives, realizing there wasn't anyone to help them but each other. Kids Nation was a modern day spin on Lord of the Flies on priveleged and pampered children being videotaped and recieving money for participating in this event.

 

 

Now watch your section's video:

YouTube plugin error

 

 

The kids have not had any contact with their parents for 39 days. How do the parents represent civilization? What are the parents’ reactions to the children’s living conditions?

The parents represent order because they haven't been "contaminataIed" by having to live in a ghost town. They came from home where there is order, government, a job to go to everyday, stores. One parent even brought along a piece of civilization when she brought her son underclothes. The parents are amazed at what their children ate and some even relish it by drinking a Bonanza Bomb at the saloon. One parent tells his child to never complain about her room after seeing that they lived in such as small space with very little of the luxuries that they had back home. A mom experiences how her daughter went to the restroom when she went to the outhouse. They see chicken feet and how the children transported water with a yoke and pail. Overall the parents are appalled at how they survived.

 

 

 

How is the ghost town the kids have lived in a liminal space?

The ghost town that the kids lived in is a liminal space because it was isolated; seperated from the old world. This was the place that the participants would have a life changing experience and learn whether they could survive on their own. Here the participants brought together all of the techniques they had learned and left behind all reminences of the old life.

 

One of the parents mentioned that this was a test of self-reliance for the kids? Do you agree, or do you think the parents had an ethical responsibility in this as well?

I disagree with the thought that this is a test of self-reliance. Even though the kids were on their own many of the things that they needed to survive were already at their disposal. If this was a real test of self-reliance they would have had to travel far to get things like books, games, food, etc. This was a test of who could use the resources provide the best not a test of survival.

 

Section 4

 

 

First, view the trailer about Kid Nation. 

 

 

After watching the trailer, the narrator claims that it the town is entirely run by kids. Is this true?

I don't think the town is completely ran by the kids because reality shows are more likely to be fake and somewhat scripted, and this one seems no different. I honestly don't think that kids would be able to run a civilization on their own without the help of adults or situations would be entirely similar to those in the Lord of the Flies. In the trailer for Kids Nations, I noticed that they said that there was a little shop run by the kids, which seemed very unrealistic because if kids were ever in a society on their own they would never be as organized as it was set up. Chaotic things would happen in the civilization and anarchy would be broken out if the enticing $20,000 they offer in the end. Also when they discussed having a soda shop, how would they have the means to keep the constant flow of the soda. And where are the kids getting the money to buy things like soda and candy? All of these things seem unrealistic and if they didn't have the money to afford these things, the town wouldn't be nearly as organized. Obviously, adults are stepping in and contributing, even the producers are contributing to the society by adding stock and providing money. Producers, for sure, and possibily parents are involved with maintaining the civilization because I know that at least one child got hurt during the process of filming, and it's obvious that producers had to step in and help the children. Serious injuries require serious medical attention which is something that a first-aid kit can't necessarily fix. Adults would have to be brought into this type of situation. With reality shows comes a bit of fakeness and essentially, unreality. Many people who have been on a reality show have said that there is some scripts that were given to the people, and sometimes the people on the show are known as "actors." This seems somewhat bizarre, but realistic. I don't doubt the fact that the producers would give the children ideas of ways to survive, i.e. establishing jobs and ways of doing that, which are also somewhat entertaining. Some of the responsibilities do fall on the children though. The major reason why the adults would intervene would be to make the show entertaining by adding DRAMA and things that would be interesting to the viewers and also for the safety of the kids.

 

Jack's comment - I also do NOT believe that this show is completely run by kids because there were people behind the stage telling them what to stay.  The directors made the plot based on drama and what the viewers wanted.  They did not make the most realistic show because if it was realistic it would probably nobe as interesting and compelling to the viewers as it is currently.  While the idea of having kids run their own down is creative; it is probably not the most realistic and true reality television show.

 

 

How do the adults running the show provide Apollonian order for the kids?

The adults running the show provide Apollonian order for the kids because as soon as they arrived there was immediate structure given to them. Apollonian means structure, order, and rules which is basically what was given to them. It wasn't that hard to survive when they already have nicely constructed homes and buildings because the children didn't have to work as hard. Everything was clean and there was not wild trees or woods, it was just nicely located with automatic survivable conditions and for the most part they are told what to do by their parents or guardians.

 

 

Take a tally of how many members think they would have enjoyed being part of a program like Kid Nation? Why or why not?

None of us would want to be a part of this show because we think that it is fake and it wouldn't be fun, even though you would leave with a strong sense of how to work and compromise with strangers. We also wouldn't  want to be a part of this show because there would be comstant bickering and fighting with fellow kids in order to survive. Personally, I know that I wouldn't be a part of a show like that just to obtain $20,000. I also don't see the point of it because most people know that children between the ages of 8-15 can't survive on their own, so why have a show based on such unrealistic views?

 

 

How does is this similar to Lord of the Flies? How is it different?

This is similar to Lord of the Flies because it is a bunch of kids trying to survive on their own without extreme adult supervision. They have to decide jobs and maintain order.  It is different because the kids in Lord of the Flies were on an unknown island.  On the other hand the kids in the show were bieng filmed and had acess to a hospital and to adults if a serious injury was to happen.

 

 

Now watch your section's video:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcO52QWnwJI

 

The parents of Kid Nation were criticized for letting their kids be a part of this program. After watching the video, discuss with your group the moral responsibility do parents have in protecting their children and then answer the following questions.

 

 

Is there something unethical about letting children be a part of reality television? 

Yes, I believe that children should not participate in T.V. shows at such a young age.  For example, the spotlight of all the cameras might go to their head and they might start to lose focus of their school work which is the most important aspect of childhood and especially teens.

 

 

What motives could the parents have had in letting their kids participate in this show?

The kid's parents could have wanted their kids to learn to never take the luxuries they have for granted.  Their parents also might have wanted their kids to learn how hard it is for them to survive on their own and for them to learn the basics on survival on their own; to see what it could possibly seem like later on in their future. That could've helped them gain some wisdom and knowledge about how their civilization, the United States, is ran and the complexity of the government.  In addition, they also were probably given a good amount of money to participate in this show.

 

 

What possible dangers and emotional turmoil could the kids endure by being separated for weeks with no absolute contact with their parents?

The children could've suffered great emotional damange that the other children could have placed on them, and without conveying their feelings to their parents they could be deeply troubled. Parents are sacred to children at their age so that they can converse with them about their troubles and pains in their life. When those priviliges are taken away from such young children, especially when they endure great challenges on an unknown location, great damage could've happen to their psyche.

I would imagine that it would be very difficult to leave your parents for that long.  I know I would be homesick and would want to be at home after at least a month.  It must have been very difficult and hard for the kids to be away from their families for this long.  Additionally, these kids could have suffered some emotional break-downs during this span of time.

 

 

Section [6]

 

 

First, view the trailer about Kid Nation. 

 

 

After watching the trailer, the narrator claims that it the town is entirely run by kids. Is this true? 

We believe that the nation is independently run by children, but that there is unseen adult intervention. After carefully watching the video, one could easily distinguish that the adults had an unseen hand in this. There is always the safety and security of adults nearby. Clearly, there is close medical attention at hand and one can distinguish that an adult is always nearby. Several other aspects of the video (such as external sources of food and utensils) show that adults must have intervened at some point. One must also understand that this show is designed for entertainment and profit - therefore, society cannot progress as roughly or as idealistically as reality would allow. The show itself must include conflict at some point - perhaps more than there would be if the children actually ran the show by themselves. A show's primary purpose is to entertain - and while the progression of an immature society seems to be an idealistic idea for a show, without the proper scripts and adjustments, it would be much harder for it to be a success on television. Therefore, one must assume that a truly unscripted version of kids creating a society would be far less like this, and more comparable to the development of the Lord of the Flies.

 

 

How do the adults running the show provide Apollonian order for the kids? 

The adults provide Apollonian order for the kids because they have a social heirarchy set up for the children and because they set up games that encourage the children to work together to make their town better. 

Also, the adult's provision of a "gold star" which is a $20,000 prize for the best child helps ensure order. The children have a council that they have nominated who decide on one "camper" who works the best with others and contributes the most to recieve it. Since anyone can recieve the gold star, it acts as a powerful encintive to retain order and not to rebel against the order of their civilization. The council has power because they are the weilders of the star, and since they are nominated to their positions, they tend to be well-behaved and level-headed children who won't encourage disorder or become corrupted.

 

 

Take a tally of how many members think they would have enjoyed being part of a program like Kid Nation? Why or why not? 

So far: 3 Yes           2 No

 

"I would have enjoyed being a part of "Kid Nation." It seems like it would be a fun environment, and we could do whatever we wanted. The only thing I don't like about it is that there are parents present, a form of social hierarchy (parents; dole out the "prize" and also make sure no one is killed- though this is good- and look over the children). " -Suzie

 

"I wouldn't want to be a part of "Kid Nation" because it seems like it would be  really hard and there's no adults. The only form of social hierarchy would be gone. I think that because its only kids, the town could have some serious problems. Such as the video of the council abusing their power." -DeAnna

 

"I would've wanted to take part in "Kid Nation" because it would be interesting to see how well children could run their own town. I think I'd definitly try out for a spot on the council because I think I'm a good leader. I'd also enjoy seeing how the children feel trying on the responsibilites of the adults they take for granted in the real world. I'd also love to see how the producers of the show set up the town as a microsism for a real town's government."

- Kelsie

How does is this similar to Lord of the Flies? How is it different? 

The the Lord of the Flies, the children elected only one leader. In Bonanza, the children elected multiple leaders to make up a council who decided on important decisions for the children together. In Lord of the Flies, the children were stranded on an island with no means of escape except for the bleak hope of rescue. In Bonanza, anyone can leave when they choose.These places were similar because both places have children that range in age and the eldest children are typically the ones with more power. The uninformed tv viewer would think these are similar because the children appear to be on their own, but an informed people could see the adults influence on the children.The most important difference between Lord of the FLies and Bonanza is the fact that Bonanza has a social hierarchy, and a government system that keeps things running smoothly at most times. Even when something seriously bad happens in Bonanza, such as a fire or a fight broke out, there would always be an adult nearby off scenes that could rush in and calm and comfort the children. In Lord of the Flies, there was no big, strong adult to help quell the children's fears. When something bad happens in Lord of the Flies, the children are on their own, left to survive and by their own devices and comfort each other. 

 

 

Now watch your section's video:

YouTube plugin error

 

 

This is the first time on Bonanza that the council is all male. How do they abuse their power?

The leadership council is not helping with any work. This is similiar to Lord of the Flies when the only person to help was Simon. Ralph, the island leader did a good work but couldn't keep order long enough. Jack took power and abused it. This is similiar to the Kid Nation leaders. They demanded respect when in truth, they were the ones who needed to respect the other townspeople.

 

 

Why do you think one of the girls compare the council to a Nazi regime? 

One of the girls thinks that the council is  like a Nazi regime because they demanded respect and were acting like their council was like the Nazi's "Perfect Person" (an Aryan). The council was taking sides, not listening to their people, and certaintly not demonstrating any leadership traits. They were not helping out and were abusing their power.

 

 

Using the video as an example and your knowledge of Apollonian v. Dionysian, how would Lord of the Flies have turned out different if there had been girls?

 

I think that if there had been girls on the island, there would have been a lot more thought put into decisions, because as we all know girls think with their hearts and are more rational than most boys. Although girls use feelings and emotions they would also confront their intellect and reason to make decisions, unlike boys who would just use feelings and impulse. I feel that Jack and his followers--all of the boys would have been more respectful because they had girls to impress and reputations to uphold. They probably would have thought out actions and plans more thoroughly. There also wouldn’t have been as much chaos because most girls cannot dwell in that type of environment so they would take the initiative to change it. Girls would have tried to preserve the little civilization that they had left and used it to further the island, instead of leaving it all behind and erasing it from there minds.  Additionally, there would be a lot less violence because the grils would do a lot more screaming than fighting.

 

 

Comments (Show all 42)

blake said

at 12:49 pm on Nov 12, 2008

i know i havnt done much work so email me if you need me to do something

Kelsie =] said

at 12:54 pm on Nov 12, 2008

Hey Mimi, thanks for asking for help. If you send me an email I can forward it to our whole island and ask for suggestions.

blake said

at 1:00 pm on Nov 12, 2008

watch both videos and help answer the questions

Mac said

at 1:05 pm on Nov 12, 2008

Do we all answer the questions or do we answer them as a group?

DeAnna said

at 1:07 pm on Nov 12, 2008

Ms. Leschhorn: we're typing it on Mac's computer.

Kelsie =] said

at 1:07 pm on Nov 12, 2008

Mrs. L, the whole group worked on our section's questions

Kelsie =] said

at 1:12 pm on Nov 12, 2008

Okay everyone, tonight we all have to work on this. Add one or two sentences to each of your sections questions so that everyone contributes.

J. Wright said

at 1:13 pm on Nov 12, 2008

Section 4, I will definitely be working on this wiki tonight, and we should strive and make the wiki as best as we can.

J. Wright said

at 3:15 pm on Nov 12, 2008

Mimi, I edited some of the stuff that we contributed and edited in class. I just simply added a paragraph.

Mimi said

at 3:57 pm on Nov 12, 2008

Ok thanks!

DeAnna said

at 8:35 pm on Nov 12, 2008

Don't forget to answer some questions guys.

J. Wright said

at 9:21 pm on Nov 12, 2008

I've took the liberty to edit some things by basically adding on, and if anyone in my group wants to change anything that I've said that's fine.

jhowell said

at 9:58 pm on Nov 12, 2008

I added on to almost every one of the purple sections answers. I think everyone in the purple section should add something to our groups comments.

J. Wright said

at 10:03 pm on Nov 12, 2008

Anna, if you could add onto our things then we would be complete. Also, for the that stated, "After watching the trailer, the narrator claims that it the town is entirely run by kids. Is this true?", Jack you didn't have to add a new paragraph. You could have simply just made your statements fit in thoroughly because Mrs. Leschhorn can tell that either of us have added or edited the wiki.

Mac said

at 11:18 pm on Nov 12, 2008

What do I need to complete for my group. Just to let you know I also have free first tomorrow

Harsha Indian said

at 11:41 pm on Nov 12, 2008

Sorry - I've been really busy all night. I'll get working and add some stuff.

Harsha Indian said

at 11:53 pm on Nov 12, 2008

After watching the trailer, the narrator claims that it the town is entirely run by kids. Is this true?

I just did that question for section 9 - will someone please read over it? I'm somewhat sleepy right now, and I'll get the Apollonian v. Dionysian question tomorrow.

You're more than welcome to answer it if you'd like, I just thought that I had a specific idea in mind for that particular question.

Suzie said

at 12:22 am on Nov 13, 2008

I'm going to work on Section 9's questions (Olivia, Adam, and Darryl we have another video and more questions to answer! Remember to contribute!)

Suzie said

at 1:09 am on Nov 13, 2008

I didn't get to the other questions but elaborated on the others. I will work on them tomorrow.

Kelsie =] said

at 7:52 am on Nov 13, 2008

No problem Harsha, I'll look over it now.

Kelsie =] said

at 8:09 am on Nov 13, 2008

I added in a paragraph on differences for one of the questions. I'll add the paragraph about the similarites during my free today.

Kelsie =] said

at 8:27 am on Nov 13, 2008

Mac, during your free you could start working on the citing page. I sent out an email to everyone about the citing that should help you. (I'm going to be working on it during my free too)

DeAnna said

at 8:58 am on Nov 13, 2008

Don't forget to email me and say your opinion. Yes/No answers plus an explanation. So far I have Jack's, Suzie's, mine, Kelsie's, and Harsha's. (I think. ) Someone else too I think.

Harsha Indian said

at 9:16 am on Nov 13, 2008

Quick question (mainly to Blake, DeAnna, Kelsie and Mac). What section are we? I was under the assumption that we were section 9, bu I could be mistaken.

Mimi said

at 9:16 am on Nov 13, 2008

Hew guys I just made the answers to the questions to a different color so that people can see them more clearly.

aclarkson said

at 9:16 am on Nov 13, 2008

I will finalized the paragraphs tonight and add any more information that was left out.

aclarkson said

at 9:17 am on Nov 13, 2008

I'll change the colors too later tonight.

Harsha Indian said

at 9:18 am on Nov 13, 2008

Also, anybody is open to answer the last question. I wanted to answer another question, but I just realized that it was for another group to do (sorry...). I'll answer it if you'd like, but I'm not so sure about an alternate development concerning Girls Vs. Boys.

Mimi said

at 9:44 am on Nov 13, 2008

Hey DeAnna am I supposed to e-mail you my response too?

DeAnna said

at 12:22 pm on Nov 13, 2008

Yeah.

Kelsie =] said

at 3:30 pm on Nov 13, 2008

If you need help or guidance on your questions, just email me but it must get done.

Section 9 - Finish your last three questions.

Section 6 - The final question must be completed.

Section 4 - Nice job, you can expand on your answers if you want to.

Harsha Indian said

at 5:17 pm on Nov 13, 2008

Who wants to tackle the last question?

dcurrie said

at 7:42 pm on Nov 13, 2008

that show was good, but um that Taylor girl was really mean until she broke down crying and asked to be atoned.

jhowell said

at 8:09 pm on Nov 13, 2008

sorry I did not mean to steal the lock from dcurrie, lets all try to finish that last question together about Apollonian vs. Dionysian......

dcurrie said

at 9:15 pm on Nov 13, 2008

ok sounds like a plan to me

Adam said

at 10:02 pm on Nov 13, 2008

I thought that I was supposed to do the questions about the second video?

dcurrie said

at 12:39 am on Nov 14, 2008

OLIVIA, ADAM, SUZIE DONT CITE THIS SITE http://www.rd.com/advice-and-know-how/extraordinary-uses-for-toothpaste/article24040.html BECUASE I LOOKED FURHTER AND ITS ACTUALLY AN EXCERPT FROM A BOOK, I ALREADY DID IT.

Kelsie =] said

at 2:19 pm on Nov 14, 2008

Nice job working together everyone. My free period is about to start and I'll be doing final edits at that time (punction, spell check, ect.)

Remember! We get locked out right after last period today.

Harsha Indian said

at 3:44 pm on Nov 14, 2008

Hey everyone - unfortunately I was sick at home today. I just realized that there is ~ 30 minutes left till this thing was due, so I decided to get on the wiki. Is there anything that needs to be done? I'll just scan the thing for grammar & spelling mistakes unless there is something urgent that I need to do.

ctreischmann said

at 3:48 pm on Nov 14, 2008

i'm looking at it too harsha and i dont see anything that stands out... thanks for offering!

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